tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post2916920915116070314..comments2023-10-31T03:23:29.373-04:00Comments on Law Enforcement Against Prohibition: Won't Somebody Please Think of the Children - an argument for drug legalizationDavid Bratzerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16356249815391506872noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-88443818604732951172011-11-30T13:32:06.908-05:002011-11-30T13:32:06.908-05:00@ Dave K, We now have more people using drugs than...@ Dave K, <i>We now have more people using drugs than ever.</i><br /><br />To spring off what you mentioned …<br /><br />Lots of prohibitionists use this saying, and then say it’s due to “demand.” And thus they need to engage in “demand reduction” which basically means crushing, shaming, imprisoning others.<br /><br />But the obvious fact they overlook is that the prohibitionists caused the highly profitable black market, and that is what caused peddlers to multiply, and create a never ending supply of them; each one looking to stake a claim, create a new market, or take over someone else’s market.<br /><br />The prohibitionist mindset puts the cart before the horse, and elevates itself over others as self-appointed master to dictate others’ wishes, desires, and feelings.Andrew C. Bairnsfatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08953893718269409996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-13736353991617081052011-11-28T19:50:22.687-05:002011-11-28T19:50:22.687-05:00Kids have reported on the government's own SAM...Kids have reported on the government's own SAMHSA drug survey for over ten years that it is easier for them to obtain marijuana than it is to get alcohol or tobacco. The kids that drug dealers have retailing the drugs have no problem selling them to anyone with money. Regulation and sale through businesses that would ask for ID and who could lose their licences for sale to a minor could go a long way to solving the problem. I do think that this would take the forbidden fruit aspect out of drugs and would be of benefit. We have spent over a trillion dollars on a war on drugs that has produced drugs of higher potency and cheaper costs. We now have more people using drugs than ever. There is something clearly wrong when the drug war itself kills far more people than do the drugs themselves. The drug war is not just failed policy, it is a war on the American people. Those countries that are working with harm reduction approaches are having much more success than we do with draconian laws and inhumane punishments.Dave Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937225034141201986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-67302680332281776442009-12-16T07:36:51.953-05:002009-12-16T07:36:51.953-05:00I really appreciate all the feedback, additions, a...I really appreciate all the feedback, additions, and corrections. Hopefully this post and its comments will be useful to anyone engaging in a discussion on drug policy.William Cookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18297870766492113414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-10082880487017697162009-12-16T02:29:17.625-05:002009-12-16T02:29:17.625-05:00Sorry Anonymous, I tried the link right after I po...Sorry Anonymous, I tried the link right after I posted it and it worked fine.<br /><br />Now I too see the error. :-( But there are a few easy solutions.<br /><br />1. Just "right click" on the link above and you can download the PDF directly to your computer. That works (for me).<br /><br />2. Visit <a href="http://ChristiansAgainstProhibition.org/" rel="nofollow">any page on that website</a> and in the upper right sidebar are links to plenty of mini-handouts with all the "official" LEAP sayings I could round up.<br /><br /><i>Curiously when I clicked those links in the side bar, all of them downloaded except The Children. But I've checked and double checked the HTML, server permissions, invisible characters, etc…, so it's a temporary mystery/glitch/bug. But all of them can be downloaded via the "right click" method. Another note is I tried the link above with FireFox and at my site with FireFox and everything downloaded correctly.</i>ChristMotForbudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17470401758267964354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-53336754631956577962009-12-16T01:04:06.936-05:002009-12-16T01:04:06.936-05:00"Save Our Children, Legalize Drugs" link..."Save Our Children, Legalize Drugs" link 404'd. :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-51293383201268243862009-12-15T16:47:36.093-05:002009-12-15T16:47:36.093-05:00I am a parent of four children and they have many,...I am a parent of four children and they have many, many friends.<br /><br />I will let you know right now that my kids have easier access to marijuana, heroin, ecstacy and other fare than they access to alcohol and cigarettes. Those are the 2 hardest items for them to get and the only two that are regulated and controlled.<br /><br />Believe me, I live it every day.<br /><br />I don't know where you people live, but drugs are rampant and always have been and always will be as long as they are prohibited.<br /><br />Get a CLUE!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-62856803165654586932009-12-15T16:27:53.546-05:002009-12-15T16:27:53.546-05:00I want to make a quick correction on the original ...I want to make a quick correction on the original post.<br /><br />"If we are concerned about all children, we should think of the impact the drug war has on black children. In big cities every day children are caught in the cross-fire between criminal gangs that would not exist but for prohibition."<br /><br />A better sample would be "urban children" or "inner-city children" since not necessarily all African-Americans are city dwellers and not all "inner-city children" are necessarily African-Americans.<br /><br />That said, great post!Bearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-32335078575095385092009-12-15T14:51:45.299-05:002009-12-15T14:51:45.299-05:00Whether or not one has children should not really ...<i>Whether or not one has children should not really have any place in this debate. It is bizarre that the anonymous writer even made this remark.</i><br /><br />My perspective is this kind of comment is based on the amorphous "Family Values." However, it doesn't take much time, and one doesn't even have to watch Reality TV shows like "Wife Swap," to realize that families often have <i>very</i> different values.<br /><br />So basically, to me, "Family Values" is just a thinly veiled attempt to enforce "my version of religious values" on others. However, this too doesn't withstand honest scrutiny, for a variety of reasons. First it seems to me that the people who started this saying are trying to imply what they are pushing are "Christian" values. So let's take a quick look at the life of Christ and see what we have.<br /><br />1. A man who was not married and had no kids.<br />2. A man who said it was better to remain single and childless than to be married and have kids.<br />3. A man who wandered around and didn't have a job.<br />4. A man who relied on handouts and the kindness of strangers for food, clothing, and housing (when he wasn't sleeping outdoors, homeless).<br />5. A man whose family came to take charge of him because they thought he was crazy.<br />6. A man who said he came to bring division in families so that a person's enemies would be the people of his own family. "A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><i>The forbidden fruit aspect should be considered. Because it is illegal it has a certain lure to it. … Many children try marijuana and other illegal drugs because they are illegal.</i><br /><br />I agree. There are two reasons I don't hear too often, so I'll share them here. <br /><br />1. Not just because it's illegal but <a href="http://ChristiansAgainstProhibition.org/Stigmatizing_Drugs_Encourages_the_Rebellious_to_Try_Them" rel="nofollow">because they are trying to irritate authority figures</a>. You want to see rebellious kids do the exact opposite of what you want? Spend all your time telling them what <i>not</i> to do. Throw a fit and fly off the handle when you see anything on your list of "do-nots" taking place, the more you loose control, curse, and make odd facial expressions and exhibit other quirks, the more they will be sure to want to see your performances.<br /><br /><br />2. It's been a while since I've graduated high school and college, but it seems to me I remember hearing other kids use reasoning like this, "it's illegal, so I will try it now while it's available to me." <br /><br />But the latter point was not used with regards to legal/regulated drugs because some of the kids would reason, "I can drink when I'm old enough, I'll wait." I know many will jump on me and say "not everyone is mature enough to think like that." My reply to that is "I know. But many kids are smarter than they're given credit for." And we know the "one size fits all" approach does not often work; there are many strategies for education and achieving objectives, not everyone needs the same lessons or presented the same way.<br /><br /><br />I agree, "<a href="http://ChristiansAgainstProhibition.org/ma/ChristiansAgainstProhibitionOrg/LEAP/LEAP_Save_Our_Children.pdf" rel="nofollow">Save Our Children, Legalize Drugs</a>," (a PDF of mini-handouts you can download and hand out, to get the conversation started).ChristMotForbudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17470401758267964354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-20668327428724664462009-12-15T13:19:35.813-05:002009-12-15T13:19:35.813-05:00Good points Matthew. You're right, the proced...Good points Matthew. You're right, the procedural details are important here. Remember that a ratified Constitutional Amendment was required to institute -- and repeal -- alcohol prohibition. Modern drug prohibition has evolved without this very basic requirement; it's a patchwork of regulations, court decisions, sentencing laws, international treaties, etc etc.<br /><br />So, from the very beginning, drug prohibition symbolized a basic violation of the rule of law. That status has only solidified and calcified over the ensuing decades (nearing a century now!).Rhayaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14058323741957679243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-60946039651776945542009-12-15T12:53:13.756-05:002009-12-15T12:53:13.756-05:00A minor point: the pure food and drug act of 1906 ...A minor point: the pure food and drug act of 1906 was a national drug law. The Harrison Act of 1914 that you reference is presumably mentioned because it was the first "prohibition." But actually, both measures started life as informational; the PF&D act required truth in labelling, while the 1914 law was promulgated as "record-keeping" only, and only with court decisions in the years following did the law come to restrict drug distribution overtly. The distinction is important because it calls our attention to the ways that drug prohibition has always depended on constitutionally suspect actions (like using the interstate commerce clause to keep someone from growing their own).Matthew Meyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-48507701746794723892009-12-15T11:42:15.979-05:002009-12-15T11:42:15.979-05:00I certainly don't doubt the sincerity of the ...I certainly don't doubt the sincerity of the "anonymous commenters" words, but they so reflect the 'black and white' thinking that is commonplace among many in our profession. Sincere, but common, and often disastrously flawed. <br /><br />Further, the poster falls back on the rhetoric of the drug war to lend emotional, but not logical, support to his position. He is a warrior "on the front lines" pushing back against thte "scumbags" and their "poison" that "destroy people and drain our society," and if he can save "just one kid," he has done his job.<br /><br />Such passion!<br /><br />But I ask, does the poster worry about the damage to a young adult's future after being pinched for possession of a little weed at a college party? <br /><br />Does the the poster worry that granting "use" equivalency with "addiction" or "abuse" is innacurate and stigmatizing, or that we in law enforcement are viewed negatively by those who do understand the differentiation?<br /><br />Does the poster worry about the addicts who, even if they can successfully kick their addictions are forever hampered in their successful reintegration into mainstream society (those criminal hisorie sfollow long after the sentence is disposed)?<br /><br />Does the poster worry about the well-being of arrestees who are forced into a dangerous game of "F**k your buddy" when they are recruited as CIs in order to work off charges? Or that, realistically, most dealers are not necessarily "scumbags" bent on "spreading poison" but small-timers providing to their friends and associates? <br /><br />Does the poster worry that the continued illegality of most substances, and the nature of how we combat them, ensures that the top tiers of the drug distribution pyramid (a very lucrative MLM business, if you think about it), are run by criminals far removed and well-shielded from the street level wars? Or that, when one does occasionally get arrested and sent off, his peers celebrate for it just opens more channels for their distribution network? <br /><br />Does the poster worry about the BILLIONS of dollars funneled into the drug war every year because of its "drain on society," without truly addressing the actual societal ills that contribute to demand for drugs? It's like spending every night stepping on cockroaches in the kitchen but never doing anything about the rotting food that attracts them.<br /><br />Does the poster worry that so much of the distrust of law enforcement, and frequent condemnation of LE actions, are a direct result of how we conduct the current war on drugs? That the pursuit of the almighty dope pinch forces us to continuously push the boundaries of the 4th Amendment? That the pursuit of the almighty dope pinch alienates us from society to our (and societies) detriment? That the tide is shifting in public sentiment and, if we do not shift with it and accept that we are servants of the public, we will become ever more seperate from the pubic we protect?<br /><br />I believe the poster is sincere. I also believe he (or she) is wrong in so many ways and doesn't even realize it because of the blinders so many of us are forced to wear.<br /><br />Be safe all.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16926130681354225801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-25115926463083835002009-12-15T11:13:03.417-05:002009-12-15T11:13:03.417-05:00Thanks, BillThanks, Billkdada https://www.blogger.com/profile/00205903707655381027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-59851748149144716612009-12-15T10:46:53.235-05:002009-12-15T10:46:53.235-05:00It's no surprise to me that someone who works ...It's no surprise to me that someone who works "on the front lines everyday" who hold such backward views. Many people cannot think of anything beyond what they see. But your commentator fails to adhere to basic logic... the damage he/she witnesses occurs EVEN WHILE drugs are outlawed.Daveknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194774682855710383.post-62969263382501573922009-12-15T09:49:17.876-05:002009-12-15T09:49:17.876-05:00+1 for the Simpsons reference!
And, of course, gr...+1 for the Simpsons reference!<br /><br />And, of course, great overall response. As you said, the "think of the children" argument in favor of prohibition is a total straw man that will never stand up to any sort of intellectual vetting.<br /><br />Oh and by the way, the most recent "Monitoring the Future" survey was just published. We've long known that marijuana is easier for kids to obtain than cigarettes, and this year we've seen the usage rates of those two substances cross. More kids use illegal marijuana than controlled tobacco.<br /><br />The survey also says that nationwide teen marijuana use has risen slightly. This is significant, because other studies have shown <b>reductions</b> in teen marijuana use in states that allow access to medical marijuana. So which system -- prohibition or controlled access -- is doing a better job of keeping kids away from drugs?Rhayaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14058323741957679243noreply@blogger.com